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Post by Judy on Aug 10, 2020 10:56:09 GMT
Where do you stand on using your fingers for counting? Is it ok for children to use their fingers? Is there a point when it becomes unacceptable?
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Jenny
Junior Member
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Post by Jenny on Aug 10, 2020 19:16:46 GMT
I think fingers are a great resource for counting, but I think that ideally students will learn number facts and partitioning which means that they aren't just counting in ones. Fingers can really help students learn about facts to 5 and 10. I find that the children in the classes which I'm currently supporting (aged 10), tend to make mistakes when using fingers to count large numbers. Fingers are a good aid for working memory, when you know finger numbers by sight. My experience is that teachers in upper juniors don't appreciate that children not knowing their finger numbers by sight is a gap which is well worth filling.
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cathw
New Member
I am a Dyslexia tutor and assessor. I teach maths and English, working in Harrogate and Newark.
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Post by cathw on Aug 11, 2020 9:56:08 GMT
I agree, if you do not let them use their fingers then you are disabling them, (like removing a phone off a teenager) but the more you can use the other concrete materials and help them to visualise the numbers or use other methods then this will help to move them gently away from using their fingers.
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Post by Claire Martin on Aug 11, 2020 12:24:06 GMT
I use my fingers sometimes!! I think fingers are like any other concrete resource, they will only help learners in maths if they know how to use them for maths. It can be easy to say 'use your fingers to help you' but not so easy in practice if children are unsure that 1 finger represents 1 or for that matter, 1 finger might represent 3 if they are counting in 3s. Lots of children I have worked with need to 'grow' their fingers, for example to add 3 and 2, they count out 1,2,3 on 1 hand and then 1,2 on the other and then count all from 1 to find the total. They don't 'just know' how to represent 3 on their fingers without counting them out in 1s first. And don't get me started on 'put the big number in your head and count on 2 with your fingers'-this can lead to huge confusion as children see 2 fingers but are saying the number 5 out loud-if indeed they know that 3 is the bigger number to start with! I think lots and lots of practice of 'growing' fingers then moving onto 'showing' fingers is helpful-so start with show me 4 fingers and the children count out 4 in 1s. Then once they are secure with this 1:1 correspondence, move onto 'show me 4'. Also the teacher showing 4 fingers and asking 'how many?' which links to subitising.
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Post by Judy on Aug 11, 2020 13:10:55 GMT
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matt
New Member
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Post by matt on Aug 12, 2020 7:22:11 GMT
I once taught a young boy who was born without thumbs, from reception the children sitting next to him had helped by "lending him fingers" so that he was able to more easily get his bonds to ten. As time progressed the "sharing of fingers" in the class became common so that children would work with partners for bonds to 20 etc. I have no evidence but this seemed to really encourage working in small groups and lots of discussion around calculations which seemed to benefit everyone's understanding of number. Since then I have often encouraged classes to work together in that way. It also meant he didn't feel that the approach was specifically for him.
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Post by stevechinn on Aug 12, 2020 9:15:05 GMT
Matt, I loved your story!
An ex-colleague, Julie Betenson, has done research into finger counting. She should come up on searches.
Hands and fingers can encourage chunking; 1 finger, 2 hands, 5 fingers per hand and 10 fingers per 2 hands. Good images for 6 as 5 + 1, 7 as 5 + 2, 9 as 10 - 1.
I use the 'sheep counters' as one image for place value. Always entertaining in lectures, too. I'll ask Julie how I can upload an image.
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Post by stevechinn on Aug 12, 2020 9:15:36 GMT
Matt, I loved your story!
An ex-colleague, Julie Betenson, has done research into finger counting. She should come up on searches.
Hands and fingers can encourage chunking; 1 finger, 2 hands, 5 fingers per hand and 10 fingers per 2 hands. Good images for 6 as 5 + 1, 7 as 5 + 2, 9 as 10 - 1.
I use the 'sheep counters' as one image for place value. Always entertaining in lectures, too. I'll ask Julie how I can upload an image.
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Post by stevechinn on Aug 12, 2020 9:18:47 GMT
PS. I often ask delegates at my lectures this: 'If today is Friday, how many days is it until Tuesday?' and then ask them to confess if they used their fingers. Always a good chunk of them do. Finger counting can take an 'unusual' situation back into your comfort zone. And often it is appealing quick (and accurate)
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Post by Judy on Aug 12, 2020 14:51:05 GMT
I still use my fingers for exactly that situation - and also for counting months- eg how many months until we can see that back of 2020? I will upload the place value sheep counters. It's a good one!
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Post by Judy on Aug 12, 2020 14:51:54 GMT
I still use my fingers for exactly that situation - and also for counting months- eg how many months until we can see that back of 2020? I will upload the place value sheep counters. It's a good one! counters20810.docx (213.49 KB) counters20810.docx (213.49 KB)
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Jenny
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by Jenny on Aug 13, 2020 9:22:16 GMT
Fingers are good for counting teas on one hand and coffees on the other.
Thanks for all the links.
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Lina
New Member
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Post by Lina on Aug 14, 2020 19:35:29 GMT
I always count on my fingers for when we have to put 1st, 3rs and 6th character of our password for logins. When teaching deaf children, we use our fingers to represent numbers, but they are signed with one hand, therefore having 1-1 representation for numbers up to 5, then it gets more complicated. In theory, having a thumb sideways for 6 could help the children know that the 1 thumb is 1 more than 5, two fingers are two more than five, etc, but they often still count from 1 to get to that number. I am attaching the webpage with the image of the numbers so that you can see what I mean. www.british-sign.co.uk/british-sign-language/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/BSL-NUMBERS-ONE-TO-TEN-1024x721.pngSigning the numbers in that way helps with a quicker recall the number bonds to 10 from 6 upwards, as it is easier to count the fingers that are down.
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Post by Bernadette CS on Aug 15, 2020 12:40:32 GMT
I think fingers can initially be used as an additional counting aid (like a permanent ' mobile' manipulative! ) but am mindful of a few things here. It's a great ,relatable,familiar tool to a child, and part of helping them see the fiveness of 5, and of course 10 etc. . Nice to demonstrate and use for counting in order/sequences too. I think understanding '5' is so important to the children as part of then understanding 10 (and it does feel that an awful lot of time is spent in schools working on the Bonds of 10, and then onwards but little time on the bonds of the other numbers before 10 - but that's probably another topic!). As Steve says perfect for creating images pf 5 +1. 5 + 3 too and good for subtraction too by just folding down the fingers in question. I sometimes like to get children to draw around their own hands on paper then and then play with that too. So, a lovely relatable and 'safe' tool, that's always there when needed.
In answer to the original question though, I'm not sure I'd say it is unacceptable but there are times when I have to confess I don't like to see children use fingers . I always say to children when I first see they are using their fingers that is is ONE of the strategies for calculation. I explain that we will be working on helping them develop a few other strategies that they can use as well , and then they will have a few to choose from instead of just one. So, further down the line, when I can see that say 'doubling' would be a good, and more accurate strategy, (because I know they know and understand their doubles to 20 for example ), it's a little 'flag' to me when I see the fingers come out! It usually just signifies to me that we need a bit of reinforcement/ repeats elsewhere. It's a good 'flag' however' at other times if you observe children counting on, rather than counting all.
So I think fingers are great to use for teaching, and in the early stages for the learner too. When they come out further down the line for calculation purposes, it does kind of tell me that a little more work on the bonds generally wouldn't go amiss.
Having said that, if I don't have an online tool to hand, I do use my fingers myself for counting months to determine a child's exact age in years and months for a standardised test for example!
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Linda
New Member
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Post by Linda on Aug 16, 2020 13:43:21 GMT
I'd be lost if I couldn't use my fingers when counting dates
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